And for some of our students watching this course and this interview, they'll be interested in learning how can they get involved in building learning and training products? What advice would you have for them? >> So, I would kind of go back to what got me into training in the first place when I was thinking about my next career move. So I was an IT Director at a small company. And I just wanted to do something different. And I said to my recruiter, these were my criteria, I want to get into a global company, big, walk through a handful of things. And he happened to have a lot of roles that were training-focused. Then I started thinking back, wow, man I really admired, there was a trainer at a company a long time ago that, I was a Unix admin. So, I took a lot of Unix training back in the day. And so there was a training person at this company that, hey, I just admired him so much, and that's what triggered me to get into training. So, I think about, what good stories do I hear, or what moves me when I'm watching a training course or participating in a training course, and what kept me interested? And then, was there a compelling story? And so, you start thinking about those things. If you're thinking about getting into training, it's definitely something that you gotta have a passion for. It isn't like a job that you can just pick up one day and say, I'm going to be a curriculum developer or I'm going to go deliver training. I mean, there's gotta be some motivation there that compels you to do that. But once you get into the discipline, there are just things that you think about in terms of, how do I make my experience for my learners better? What can I add into the activities for them to do? And, the other piece of training and learning products, that I'll also kind of adjunct on to is, there's also the whole learning experience itself. So, we have a whole other team, large team within training and certification, who are actually focused on the training experience itself, and the platform that we use. So that's like a whole other discipline, and then UX a whole other discipline. So, you don't really start realizing all the granularity about training until you really get into a large company, and you see the machine. It's almost like it's a small microcosm of a larger company. It has all the same functions. The other the other thing that I always look at when I'm thinking about people or interviewing people that might be interested in one of my roles is I actually ask them, hey, as a starter question, what's your favorite product? And I always say, I'm not looking for an AWS product. I specifically tell people the answer isn't, tell me what AWS product you like, although some people will still do that. The reason I'm asking them that question is, I want to see what their answer is when I say, why is that your favorite product? Because I want to see what's delighting you about it, or what's compelling to you about that? And when you can put that into context, and explain why it's your favorite product, it's very telling kind of the thought process that somebody has. So, I use that a lot, in general, in my interviews. And then I'll say this over and over again, never stop asking questions. So, for anybody that wants to get into training, or product management regardless of the discipline, start to pay attention to people in your ecosystem who ask smart questions, or are really well at articulating themselves. Because, there are a lot of soft skills that are incredibly important to be successful in product management. So, communication, and writing, and negotiation, and reading the room. So, the more that you start to avail yourself of those kinds of resources before you're in the direct firing line, it just kind of starts to build up your bank of skills, and it kind of prepares you for the role. And then I think my final parting tagline will be, I'm not really super active on social media, but I've used a tagline for a really long time, and it's, ideas are free. So, it doesn't cost you a single thing to think about, what a good idea. So I always encourage, you never know where the next great idea is going to come from. And you just want to keep thinking about ideas. And that's how products get born. >> That's so awesome. And I'm sure a lot of our students will take that, and use that to enter the field of product management. Well, thank you so much, Nancy, for joining us today. >> Thank you very, very much. Have a good day.
